www.caravanmusic.com/Terrabrasilis.htm

 

             Richard Boukas & Jovino Santos Neto: Balaio

 

I could simply say that Balaio is the new work by former Hermeto Pascoal's band member Jovino Santos Neto (piano, flute) along with Richard Boukas (guitar, bass, cavaquinho, mandolin, percussion, voice). That should suffice for most people. However, there is a lot more to be said about the creative music these two accomplished musicians present us. With a repertoire that includes original music by both Boukas and Santos Neto as well as some incredible music by Pascoal, Balaio is inventive, creative and delightful. Not a moment in this album is dull. It is amazing, indeed, that it took only two musicians to produce such music. Boukas does some awesome solos in a constant duel with Santos Neto's extraordinary piano work. At times the duo is serene, as in Pascoal's "Campinas," or playful as in Boukas's own "ChoroBop." Their talents shine track after track. Balaio is, as its name implies, a basket full of surprises at every note.

 

Review printed in The Oakland Express (Oakland, CA) of November 10, 2000

by Andrew Bourcier

JOVINO SANTOS NETO QUINTETO

at Yoshi's, Oakland, Monday, November 6

It was a usual-suspects crowd at Yoshi's on Monday night, the die-hard Brazilian music fans who seem to show up for every major Brazilian gig, greeting each other warmly and swapping news about the next big show. There was nothing usual about the music on tap, though, as the remarkable pianist/composer Jovino Santos Neto led his quintet through an electrifying set of high-powered Brazilian jazz. Born in Rio de Janeiro, Santos Neto is best known for his fifteen-year tenure with the legendary multi-instrumentalist/composer Hermeto Pascoal, though he's also performed widely with percussionist Airto, singer Joyce, and steel drum master Andy Narell. He's been based in Seattle since the early 90's, and has assembled a highly cohesive working band featuring Bay Area heavyweight Harvey Wainapel on soprano and tenor sax, Chuck Deardorf on bass, Mark Ivester on drums and Jeff Busch on percussion. Celebrating the release of an excellent new album on Liquid City, Ao Vivo em Olympia, the group played a wide-ranging set of Santos Neto's lyrical compositions.

Using rhythms and song forms from various regions of Brazil, Santos Neto writes tunes with the harmonic complexity of bebop, while depending on his musicians to elaborate on his self-propelling melodic lines. Much of his music is inspired by particular settings, which gives his songs visual as well as emotional resonance. "A Mountain Atop a Mountain" opened with Wainapel playing a fluttery line on soprano sax over twangy percussion, and slowly expanded into a sweeping vista as the rest of the group joined in and the melody took flight. On "Carmel", a tune based on the baião song form  of northeastern Brazil, Busch kept time with a triangle as the band played a churning country dance rhythm.

Santos Neto is a technically dazzling pianist who maintains a graceful fluidity no matter what the tempo. Indeed, the set's  high point was a solo piano piece- "Ilza Nova", a tune by Pascoal that Santos Neto dedicated to his mentor's late wife. While keeping a steady, almost stride rhythm with his left hand, Santos Neto played a series of percussive variations with his right, reaching a crescendo that owed more to Romantic classical music than jazz. He closed the set with "The Girl's Colors", a sweetly naive theme that turned into a cascading, multihued ride. It was a bravura performance, leaving no doubt that the Bay Area music scene would be enriched by regular visits from the Quinteto. 

New York Times review of  the Jovino Santos Neto Quinteto

Jeremy Eichler, New York Times, Jan. 17, 2005

Music Review | Chamber Music America: Stretching Chamber Music to Its Furthest Reaches (and Beyond)



What do Brazilian jazz; klezmer laced with rap, funk and sampling; and the lyrical postminimalist soundscapes of Ingram Marshall have in common?

I'm not sure either, but for lack of better options, we can call it the sound of a chamber music organization expanding its tent. These acts turned up on a single program at Symphony Space yesterday, in the second of two concerts presented by the service organization Chamber Music America as part of its annual conference, which took place in New York over the last several days.

On a musical level, all the acts - the Clogs, David Krakauer's Klezmer Madness and the Jovino Santos Neto Quinteto - offered some smart and engaging playing, but you often wondered how exactly this could be called chamber music. One need not be a purist to ask whether the term retains much meaning when stretched so widely.

The Clogs, a new-music ensemble that opened the evening with a compelling performance of Mr. Marshall's "In Deserto (Smoke Creek)," came the closest to any traditional
definition of the chamber music genre. That was partly because of the group's instrumentation - violin/viola, cello, guitar, bassoon and percussion - and because Mr.
Marshall's evocative and curiously soulful music draws deeply from 20th-century classical sources, ranging from Sibelius to minimalism.

Mr. Krakauer, the clarinetist, came next, airing his latest experiments in fusing klezmer with rock, soul and hip-hop. To be sure, Mr. Krakauer is an impressive classically trained player, but some of his connections between genres were less convincing than his own fiercely intense virtuosity. Even when bolstered by his remarkable technique, the klezmer often felt too distant from the club beats and electric guitar licks over which it was placed. The meeting felt more organic with Mr. Santos's sun-baked and fastidious Brazilian jazz in selections inspired by the outskirts of his native Rio de Janeiro. Grooves ran deep; solos were deeper.

In a way, the concert was also a chance for Chamber Music America to showcase the breadth of its grant-making, since all three ensembles had received its support. No doubt the
 choice of ensembles was also connected to this year's conference theme, as captured in its title, "Found in the Shuffle: Authenticity in Today's Musical Market." The conference program spoke of a perpetual search for "new blends of artistic forms."

There is both good sense and danger in this advice. Despite its potential marketability, genre-bending can never in itself be considered an intrinsic good. The musical fusion must argue its own merits in each case, and there is also, of course, something to be said for the alternative choice: sticking within one particular genre, and achieving a mastery that commands an attention all its own.

Sorcerer's Apprentice

from Brazzil magazine, april 1996

           Seattle-based Jovino Santos Neto has one mission: to make Hermeto Pascoal musical genius known to the world. He has collected Hermeto's original manuscripts and has a file of over one thousand of his compositions. Maybe Jovino can help us solve the mystery why despite being considered a genius in Europe Hermeto is all but unk nown in the US.

by Bruce Gilman

"Jazz, classical, folk, world, those are all labels that music merchants use to put on bins at record stores. They should never be applied to a musician's brain."

"When you really learn music, you learn all music. Music is like the air and the water. It flows from here to there, changes its aspects, but its essence is timeless. It truly holds the world together."

During his 15 year tenure with Hermeto Pascoal and O Grupo, Jovino Santos Neto was endowed with an unparalleled musical language and philosophy that continues to awe the world's top musicians. An incredibly articulate musician whose gentle manner conceals his prowess, Santos Neto has made it his mission to dispatch the music of Hermeto Pascoal to the world. He has collected all of Hermeto's original manuscripts and created a file of over one thousand compositions.

Everything from orchestral and chamber settings to the pieces that were actually performed and recorded by O Grupo is being transcribed and notated so that other musicians will be able to read this unique repertoire. As a result of his tenacity, much of this vast body of work will soon be available through a German publisher. In addition, to celebrate Hermeto's 60th birthday, Santos Neto recorded a stunning CD of Hermeto's music for solo piano.

The pianist, flutist, and co-producer of most of Hermeto's albums juggles an impossible schedule that includes touring and recording with Fourth World (lead by two other Hermeto alumni, Airto Moreira and Flora Purim), teaching Jazz Ensemble at Cornish College of the Arts, in Seattle, freelancing as a session player and conductor, re-orchestrating Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, and performing and recording with his own group, The Jovino Santos Neto Quartet. Refreshingly, Jovino is as unpretentious a player as he is a formidable one. Our interview took place during a break in Fourth World's hectic touring schedule and touched on many aspects of his esteemed career beginning with his years as a member of O Grupo and with Hermeto Pascoal.

What was it like working with Hermeto?

The only thing we could be sure of when playing with Hermeto was that we would be rehearsing from Monday to Friday, from 2 to 8 p.m. There wasn't much chance of becoming bored, however, because every rehearsal was different. One day we worked on something that Hermeto composed. The next rehearsal was completely improvised. And the next day Hermeto would compose right in front of us. We were his apprentices and he made sure we developed our own styles. The first thing he taught us was to listen to ourselves. At times we would not play a gig for months, but we would be there preparing new music. Recording was always a rare event. Only a small fraction of Hermeto's vast output as a composer was recorded. We did a fair amount of touring, mostly in Europe and a couple of US tours. During the times when we would be working on recording a new album, we would sometimes spend a month in São Paulo in the studio for at least 12 hours a day.

Do you feel that Hermeto was your teacher as well as your band leader?

Yes, Hermeto has a natural gift for discovering the potential talent in a young musician, and he knows how to make that talent grow and mature. For example, he told me right after I joined his group that I could become a conductor. At first I thought this was nonsense, because I had no idea of what conducting was. But with time I began to take care of his scores for orchestras and big bands. Now I am a conductor. Hermeto also knows how to write music that is just beyond what you are capable of playing at the time, so that in the process of studying that particular piece you learn exactly that new skill that was lacking. In his arrangements, all the parts are given something challenging to play. He composed new music in front of us, so we could see the process taking place. Since the group's line-up was constant for so many years, he also could write with these musicians in mind. Now that I am working on my own compositions and arrangements, I see how important that factor is!

Did the other members of O Grupo also see Hermeto as their teacher?

Yes, as I said before, Hermeto knows which language to use with any specific musician, so that his ideas are felt and understood. That is why most of the musicians who came in contact with him speak so highly of "O Campeão" -- the Champ. That is what he called his co-workers, and in turn what they called him.

Can you describe a typical O Grupo rehearsal?

The rehearsals were where everything happened. There we would play a theme over and over, dissecting all of its parts. Sometimes we would work with only one or two parts then add the others one by one. The reason for this was that each of the musicians would get to know all the other parts and then be much better equipped to blend in his individual voice. It was a great exercise in concentration and focus. However, Hermeto knew well when to break the rehearsal and go into something totally different, such as composing a new theme on the spot or launching a jam session so that everyone could relax.

He would often sit at the drums, and that would be a sign that we would start something wild and free. We would spend a lot more time, however, reading music than improvising. We would often work for months on arrangements that we would rarely, if ever, play onstage. Hermeto said that this was to form the musical ideas in our minds, a way to increase our repertoire of ideas, so that when we would play a solo, at last, there would be a lot more inspiration to draw from. Now as I teach my students, I understand how important that time was in my formation as a musician. It is amazing how some remark that Hermeto or some other fellow musician from O Grupo made surfaces now in my mind, and I see exactly how that transformed my way of hearing and playing music.

You mentioned that Hermeto made sure each player developed his own style and repertoire of ideas. How did he do that?

During my first years with O Grupo, Hermeto was often there with us, coaching, guiding, and playing with us. As time passed, he would leave us playing by ourselves, until he would come upstairs to the rehearsal room with a new piece for us to play. In the last two or three years I spent there, he would not rehearse with us, not even before a major tour. We would prepare the themes, and he would improvise over them during our performances. When he was not in the room, he was downstairs practicing the cavaquinho (small four-string guitar) or the button accordion and listening to soccer games on the radio, one of his favorite pastimes.

How did Hermeto channel all the energy of O Grupo on stage, with respect to entries, dynamics, meter, and nuance? Were there ever conventional rehearsals for these details?

All of our stage dynamics, cues, and a lot of the music was done by Hermeto on the spot. The only thing we knew was that we had to keep all of our attention on him because he might change the structure of a piece at anytime. This kept us always on our toes, and when we were surprised by what we were doing, so was the audience. The band was so tight that it was very hard for a listener to tell when we were playing written scores or when we were improvising.

A live performance with Hermeto must be very different from the live performances with Fourth World?

The differences between performing with Hermeto and with Airto are many, but the most important thing is that I feel it is a privilege and an honor to have had the chance to play with two of the most important musicians of this century. I admire them both, and have learned a lot from both of them. There has never been a "typical" concert with Hermeto. Our repertoire was quite big (from 30 to 50 working songs at one time), but we never knew which ones we would perform until he would call them.

Besides, he would often create new themes on the stage, and we would join him. His ability to create new music almost instantly never ceased to amaze me. The open sections were always a surprise, and Hermeto would often invite other musicians onstage to play with us. The band was super tight, due to our routine of rehearsals, six hours a day, five days a week. This generated a kind of telepathy among the band members, so we could almost predict when Hermeto would cue us to stop one arrangement and start another.

Playing with Airto and Fourth World has given me a whole new set of challenges. Airto is a fantastic drummer and percussionist. He is incredibly sensitive and intuitive in his playing. Up until the time I joined Fourth World, I was mainly a pianist. Suddenly I became a keyboardist as well. For me, this was like learning a totally new instrument. Airto has helped me a lot in discovering new sounds and ways to incorporate them in our sets. Even though our song lists are more structured with Fourth World, there are always free sections where we create fresh music in every performance. Airto has the power to conjure up energy and focus it on the audience. It is great to see how the public reacts to his pandeiro (tambourine) solo, no matter where in the world we might be. Both Airto and Flora Purim have played with the greatest musicians of the world, and their experience is reflected in the way they perform.

How is a pianist's approach and a keyboardist's different?

What I mean by being a keyboardist is that there are things that you can do on a keyboard that you could never do on the piano and vice-versa. I have been learning how to explore these possibilities. They include the use of samples, pads, blending sounds to create new colors, the use of pedals, aftertouch, and effects. I still need to go daily to the piano, however, and work on all those things that you can never do on keyboards.

There were some rather unusual O Grupo performances. Do any in particular stand out?

In one instance, in 1983 at a concert in Itabira, Minas Gerais, Hermeto collected all of our music folders two minutes before the show and told us that on that day no one was going to read anything. Instead, he composed all of the music we played onstage. He started on the piano then cued us in until the themes were in full swing. No one in the audience noticed what was going on. At other times, some spontaneous idea was so good that we would incorporate it in the next shows.

That was the case of the "Bandinhas." Once, in 1982, while playing at the IBAM theater in Rio, we started to leave the stage with piccolo, two saxes, tuba, and percussion and go out of the theater to the streets playing some themes that Hermeto had written for that line-up. The audience followed us outside. We paraded for a while and then went back in to finish the show. That proved to be such a hit that we ended up doing it at a great number of concerts all over the world. This created some extremely funny situations, such as our climbing aboard city buses, entering bars, and sometimes going miles away from the venue. At times we had literally thousands of people dancing behind us through the streets. The Pied Pipers...

So the "Bandinhas" were a group within the group?

The "Bandinhas" were like a portable version of our group. Instead of piano, bass, and drums we would play tuba (Itiberê), flute/piccolo (me), saxes (Hermeto and Carlos), and percussion (Márcio, Pernambuco, and Fábio). That line-up enabled us to actually march out of whatever venue we might be playing, go into the streets, and play while the crowds were following us. Hermeto penned a whole lot of compositions just for this formation. Some are like traditional maxixes and marches, others are like contemporary chamber music pieces. I transcribed a couple and played them with the Campinas Symphony Orchestra in 1993.

Jovino, there have been times when I'd be listening to a recording by another artist and all of a sudden....I'd be grinning ear to ear and swear I was hearing O Grupo. For example, didn't you guys play on Maria Bethânia's 1990 disc Canto do Pajé?

Yes, the whole Grupo played on the cut "Tomara," on the Bethânia CD. Hermeto wrote the arrangement, and I played piano and conducted the string section. I am also featured on Hermeto's arrangements of "Arrastão" by Edu Lobo and Vinícius de Moraes, "Modinha" by Jobim and Vinícius (available on the Songbook series on the Lumiar label from Brazil) and on "Marina" by Dorival Caymmi (on the Caymmi series, same label).

Hermeto's concept of The Sound of the Aura is hard for many listeners to grasp. Can you break it down a little?

Hermeto has broken down the barriers that define what music is and what it is not. His sensitive ears hear music in people's speech, in bird songs, in traffic noises, in industrial sounds. The curious thing is that once people hear what he does with these sounds, they too can only hear them as music. The Sound of the Aura is still in its beginning stages; there is so much that can be done with it. Can you imagine a film where the actors' dialogue is also the soundtrack? I am still preparing myself to be able to do more of this. It requires an ear sharp as a razor and intense concentration. Even though some other people have tried to do something similar, in my opinion, only Hermeto has succeeded in capturing the musical essence of speech.

Why is Hermeto recognized as one of the 20th century's most important composers in Europe but known only to a select audience -- primarily musicians -- in the United States?

Well, you know that in this country you are only considered to be someone in the music business if your CDs are in every store, and how many of them you sell, and if your video plays on MTV. Even though we made a lot of records with O Grupo, they are poorly distributed here and hard to find. Besides that, Hermeto never really got along well with record companies. They tend to consider his music something for the elite only and never promoted it like they should have. We played live to audiences all over the world, and we could see how the music touched people, no matter where we were. A lot of his music is actually stuff you can dance to, happy and with a lot of swing. When I produced Festa dos Deuses, it was meant to be distributed by Polygram in the US. But then Polygram said that the American public was not ready for this kind of music.

Do you agree with that?

When is the American public ever ready? I believe there is a tremendous lag time between the first performance of serious new music (Cage, Stravinsky, Pascoal) and the American public's acceptance, let alone appreciation of it. Americans are too dependent on the record companies to tell them what's OK.

Jovino, about three years ago you made Seattle your home. It was a dramatic climatic shift from Rio. What besides your studies of conducting prompted your move to the Pacific Northwest?

I cannot really explain the reasons that led me to move to Seattle. It was a very intuitive decision. I felt good when I played here with Hermeto in 1990 and even better when we returned one year later. I considered going to New York, Boston, Los Angeles, London, or Zurich. After visiting many schools, I realized that I could never teach or study in an institution where music is separated into categories such as "classical," "jazz," etc., not after what I had been exposed to with Hermeto. It was then, in 1993, that I got in touch with Julian Priester, the great trombonist and a teacher at Cornish. He told me how much they would like me to come here. Cornish is a school where the walls that separate musical styles are very thin, and I collaborate frequently with players and composers from every department. This is a very advanced place and has been the creative home of people like John Cage and Imogen Cunningham.

I came with my wife and two children, and I am very happy to live here. Of course, I travel a lot all over the world, and I get to meet a lot of interesting musicians, but I love my home base here. My study of conducting was never pursued with the intention of obtaining a degree or achieving fame as a "maestro." I wanted to learn the language of the orchestra, so that I could translate to a wider circle of musicians the musical concepts that I learned with Hermeto. I feel that I am now able to communicate with any musician, regardless of whether he is classically trained or does not read a note of music. As with everything else, this is an ongoing process and by getting involved in projects like The Rite of Spring, I expand my knowledge and fulfill my mission of making music a truly universal tool for growth.

Tell me about your re-orchestration of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. Will you be conducting?

Since I first heard Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, I was impressed by its rhythmic richness. What I am trying to do is imagine that Igor is alive today and realizes how the resources available to a composer have evolved and that he can add these resources to the original ideas of the piece. For instance, when he wrote it in 1911, the only way you could have big sounds with an orchestra was by using a lot of brass and the usual symphonic percussion instruments. Now the concept of percussion has been brought to a new level by people like Airto Moreira. By using keyboards, we can get huge sounds that do not sound heavy and cumbersome. Today we also have more musicians who have been exposed to a wider variety of rhythms and who can retrieve the original grooves in The Rite.

It's incredible how the piece starts to sound now that I am playing it in my home on my sequencer. My idea is to create a performing core unit of up to 10 musicians who will tour and perform with local symphony orchestras. I'll be using the strings and some woodwinds from the original arrangement and working with dance companies and multimedia artists to generate the visual part. It is a big project, and it might take a while, but I am getting ready to do it. I know that this might stir up some "purists" who believe that a piece of music is made of concrete and should not be touched, but in my mind I can see old Igor smiling at the idea. Controversy is what his piece created when it was first performed. Maybe I should call it The Riot of Spring.

Which 20th century conductors have influenced you?

I cannot really tell you which conductors have influenced me, apart from Roger Nelson, my conducting professor at Cornish College in Seattle. I actually do not look at all at conductors when I hear orchestras playing. I try to hear how the music is being performed. For me, the best conductor is the one that does his job so well that he is almost transparent, becoming one with the music. When I studied conducting, I learned from a variety of sources about the techniques employed, but the core of my concept of music was formed during my years in Jabour, Rio, playing Hermeto's music.

That has prepared me to face any musical situation, in any kind of style or setting. I am not saying that I know everything -- that would be ridiculous and arrogant. What I am saying is that I have learned to see and hear music as one infinite field of possibilities without any walls or divisions between what people commonly call popular, or jazz, classical, folk, world, etc. Those are labels that music merchants use to put on bins at record stores. They should never be applied to a musician's brain. When you really learn music, you learn all music. In Hermeto's words, "Music is like the air and the water. It flows from here to there, changes its aspects, but its essence is timeless." It truly holds the world together.

Your students at Cornish College of the Arts must really appreciate a teacher with a professional career in progress. How does your touring with Fourth World and performing with The Jovino Santos Neto Quartet impact your students at the college? How do you like academia?

For me, it is a great opportunity to be able to teach and share my experiences with younger musicians. It brings to my mind all the remarks Hermeto and the other musicians in O Grupo would make way back when I was learning the basics. When you can see yourself in the two positions, teacher and pupil, at the same time, it gives you a great feeling. I only teach a few hours each week. Most of my time is spent composing, arranging, and practicing on my instruments. I often go on the road, performing mostly with Airto or as a solo pianist, and I play with my quartet here around Seattle. This is also a good source of inspiration for my students, since I speak about the reality of life as a touring and performing musician instead of only theory.

Are students at Cornish College hungry to learn Brazilian music? How do you structure your class?

I teach Latin Jazz Ensemble at the undergraduate level. Basically, I use this class to explore a variety of rhythms, and since it is a good size, I can try out all sorts of arrangements and orchestrations. It is very rewarding to see people who were not born in Brazil begin to understand and feel Brazilian rhythms such as baião, samba, maracatu, and frevo and be able to incorporate these patterns into their everyday playing. We are all excited about an upcoming performance in December at the College. I also teach students on a private basis, and here I go into other areas such as composition, arranging, and the basic concepts about being a musician.

Your philosophy of music and its role as a tool for transformation reminds me of the 1+1 theory of language acquisition.

When you are able to see music as a tool for transformation, you can put yourself on a never-ending path of evolution. I study music every day, and every day I find new aspects of it I had not seen before. Hermeto was a real inspiration for this path, because he wrote music for us to play that was just beyond what we were capable of at the moment. In the process of learning that particular piece, you developed a skill that you did not have before, and you added another item to your repertoire of musical ideas. After you convince yourself that music is a universal language, you realize that every musician is on his or her path of evolution. It does not really matter how far you are on that path. It is more important to feel that there is such a way and that you can improve your own skills through concentration and discipline.

The Stepping on White Sand CD (pieces for solo piano) really drew my attention to Hermeto's extraordinary harmonies. They are so beautifully exposed in this setting. When I tried to describe them to another musician, I was hard pressed. Eventually, I said that they were a cross between Charles Mingus and Igor Stravinsky.

It's always hard to explain Hermeto's harmonic concepts, even to other musicians. When asked how he developed his harmonic sense, Hermeto said that he used to hang around as a kid at his grandfather's blacksmith shop. There he used to pick up pieces of iron and hit them, and then he tried to emulate all the harmonics he had heard on his little button accordion. Remember that this was a place with no radio or even electricity. I believe that this fact shows how sensitive to sound his ears became. Because he does not follow the usual chord progressions in his music, it always sounds fresh and unexpected.

The other interesting thing about his chords is that even though they are quite elaborate, they are mostly composed of simple triads (three-note chords) stacked over each other. This approach is radically different from the one taught at most music schools. It offers a way to create music that does not use scales and modes. I have been showing this concept to my students here at Cornish College of the Arts in Seattle, and it is amazing to see how they react when they discover that simple chords can create complex harmonies.

There are so many works to choose from. How did you select the pieces for the Stepping on White Sand project?

I basically decided to record those pieces that have become favorites of mine, music that I have been playing over the years. Some of them are actually just the piano part of an O Grupo arrangement. Hermeto always said that in his arrangements each individual part could be played as a solo, so I did just that. There are a lot more than those pieces. I play his compositions every day, and I am always surprised at how much beautiful music there is to be played. I am working now with Hermeto on a piano suite that he wrote in 1987, and which he is now re-working. It should last over 20 minutes when ready.

You don't record material that Hermeto has already recorded. I find that really interesting.

The reason I do not feel like recording music that Hermeto has already done is that there is so much that has not been done. Even so, I re-recorded the piece "Spock na Escada" (originally on Lagoa da Canoa, Município de Arapiraca, from 1984) with Mike Marshall, the mandolin player from California, on a CD that will be released on the Earth Beat label. We had a lot of fun doing that piece. We also did "Desencontro Certo." It also interests me to show Hermeto's other sides, as a composer for flute quartets, string quartets, big bands, and chamber ensembles, as well as music for solo instruments.

Will we ever have the opportunity to experience more than a fraction of Hermeto's musical treasures?

Since I left Hermeto's Group, in 1993, I made it one of my priorities to make his music available to musicians all over the world. I have always been a sort of librarian for his manuscripts, filing and organizing them. When I moved to Seattle, I started to prepare computer scores of some pieces. Now we are getting close to publishing a book with some of his solo piano music. This should be followed by some flute ensembles, string quartets, orchestral works, big band charts, and, of course, some of the arrangements from our group. I have over one thousand pieces on file, so this will take a lot of effort. I am, however, the one responsible for this, and I regard it as my mission to make sure that this amazing body of music gets passed on and heard. I am working closely with Hermeto on this project. We hope to have the first book out quite soon.

The Jovino Santos Neto Quartet is getting ready to release their first CD. What sorts of things can we look forward to? What will the disc be titled?

We are now in the pre-production stage of my first CD as a group leader. We were in the studio at the end of November and are planning a spring release on Liquid City Records -- a Seattle-based label with national and international distribution. For this first work I am preparing a batch of new compositions featuring Hans Teuber on flutes and saxophones, Chuck Deardorf on acoustic and electric basses, and Mark Ivester on drums and percussion, as well as myself on piano, flute, and keyboards. These guys are among the best musicians here in the Pacific Northwest. They have been playing my music for almost three years, and I am very pleased with our sound. We will record mostly my compositions and arrangements, but I want to include at least one piece by Hermeto. The record is not yet titled.

You're a superb flautist. How did you get involved with playing the instrument?

Having heard Hermeto's flute playing, I became very interested in learning the instrument. He helped me a lot, by giving me music to play that was so challenging that I am still learning every day from pieces he wrote over 15 years ago. It was also very inspiring to see him learning to play a new instrument. He did it with electronic keyboards, trumpet, drums, trombone, guitar, and a whole lot of other instruments he created himself. Playing several instruments is not about how many; it's about understanding the nature of each one and bringing that nature out as music.

I'm happy to hear you'll be playing flute on the quartet's disc. I've always been blown away by your flute playing with O Grupo.

Yes, I will be playing flute on this recording. There is one tune inspired by the Bandas de Pífanos of the Brazilian Northeast called "Utopinga" in which we do a flute duet with bass and percussion. I will also have some surprise guests. I believe that the timing is good for such a release.

Airto?

Airto will be playing some percussion and will also be involved with the sound and production of the project.

What are Bandas de Pífanos?

Banda de Pífanos could be translated as a fife band. These were ensembles with two bamboo flutes, zabumba, snare, and cymbals that were very popular in the Brazilian Northeast for a long time.

Can you describe some of the music on the quartet's new recording?

The music is the result of all the influences I have received in my life. Of course, there is the accent from the school where I studied (Hermeto's Group), but I have also been very inspired by the atmosphere I found here in Seattle and the willingness of the guys in the quartet to embrace the concepts I brought when I moved here. They are all great players and improvisers. I want to create something unique and very special. There are sambas, maracatus, frevos, chorinhos, marcha-ranchos, and many other rhythms in my compositions, and I keep writing more....

Contagious enthusiasm

Prior to my interview with Jovino, I spoke with mandolin virtuoso Mike Marshall, a musician known for his work with Stephane Grappelli, the David Grisman Quartet, Bela Fleck, and many others. Marshall recently finished recording a duet project with Jovino and had this to say about the versatile multi-instrumentalist:

What an amazing musician and a gold mine of musical inspiration. His work with Hermeto and all the guys in that group was some of the most inspiring music that I've ever come in contact with in any genre. What dedication to this creative genius those musicians had. A perfect moment in musical history where a brilliant mind is surrounded by young, eager talent and where the elements all came together to make these incredible artistic statements that will last forever.

For me to get as close as I have to Hermeto's music through Jovino is something that I will be eternally grateful for. His enthusiasm for the music seems to be boundless. It is as if even he had just discovered this music yesterday. He is completely willing to play this music with anyone at any time, to share the work and teach the music at whatever pace you can grasp it.

As for Jovino's own music, I really see it as a natural outgrowth of this incredibly fertile environment that he was a part of for so many years. His own music uses some of the same musical concepts as Hermeto's, but within this framework, he has found his own voice and is creating some truly unique work with his own beautiful signature.

To be able to play these duets with Jovino for my recording was an incredible inspiration. His enthusiasm is so contagious. We hit it off from the first notes that we played together. I would say that we hit it off even before that. Just talking with him on the phone before meeting I felt this kinship, this brotherhood that developed very early on and continues to deepen each time we are together, fueled by this incredible amount of mutual respect and love for the music. I only hope that more musicians and scholars will understand the importance of the gift that Jovino has to offer in terms of sharing his experiences with having worked with one of the true living geniuses of our time. It is really something to be around.

Bruce Gilman plays cuíca for Mocidade Independente Los Angeles, received his MA from California Institute of the Arts, and teaches English and ESL in Long Beach, California. You can reach him through his E-mail: cuica@interworld.net

from BrazzilMagazine, August 1997

from the Latin Jazz Yahoo e-group

Jovino Santos Neto was born in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. He worked as a pianist, flutist and producer with Hermeto Pascoal from 1977 to 1992, and moved to the United States in 1993 to pursue his own career as a musician, composer and educator. He has been actively involved in a wide variety of jazz, classical and world music projects since then, including collaborations with Flora Purim, Airto Moreira, Andy Narell, Richard Boukas, Joyce, Dori Caymmi, Native Americans and South Indian musicians. He has received commissions to write for chamber ensembles and orchestras in the US and in Europe.

Jovino is an Associate Professor of Music at Seattle’s Cornish College of the Arts, and has released 2 CDs as a leader of his own ensemble. For more information about Jovino’s work, visit his web site at www.jovisan.net.



Tell us a little about your childhood - where were you born and raised?

I was born in 1954 in Realengo, a suburb on the West Zone of Rio de Janeiro. I lived there for most of my life until I was 18.


Who was the most influential person in your life that affected you, and your decision to become an artist?

Hermeto Pascoal. I was a biologist who played piano, and he inspired me to become a musician who loves nature.


When did you first fall in love with Latin music - or - when did you first choose latin music as a career path? Can you remember which band or artist turned you on?

I heard a lot of traditional music as I was growing up in Brazil- maxixes, chorinhos, boleros, bossa nova, old-style songs, but when I was a teen ager all I listened to was blues and rock, eventually getting into progressive British rock and Jazz Fusion. That led me to hear Miles, Return to Forever, Flora Purim and Airto, Hermeto and then through him back to the Brazilian tradition. A very wide circle...


What piece or pieces of music made the most impact on you and why?

Culturally, everything I heard in my life made an impact, but musically, it was Hermeto's influence that made me listen to all this stuff, understand it without prejudices and then incorporate it into my owm style, so I'd say that his music cracked my brain open.

Who's an artist you think more people should be aware of...

At the risk of being repetitive, I have to say again O Campeão HP.

At what hour of the day are you most productive and why?

Music works in its own time frame. When music is flowing, I am not even aware of what time it is. I usually wake up early, but I can work at any time. This because of our rehearsal routine with Hermeto's group, where for 15 years we rehearsed 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, rain or shine. This discipline builds stamina and readiness, so when inspiration strikes you jump to it, and when it doesn't, you find ways to inspire yourself.

Are you a song writer?

Yes.

What kinds of things do you do to inspire your writing?

I live, I travel, I meet people. I am very inspired by these things, and often a visit or a tour is followed by a bunch of new music.

What things do you practice day to day?

My own music, and Hermeto's music. In his writing you have everything, from the most complex technical exercises to deep harmonic insights. It's all there. Since I teach Brazilian music at Cornish College here in Seattle, I also have fun learning old pieces by Ernesto Nazareth, Radamés Gnatalli, Pixinguinha, Edu Lobo, Carlos Lyra and others to show to my students.

What are your priorities when you go to the stage?

To be honest and true to my inspiration, to communicate with my fellow musicians, and to kick some serious ass.

How do you see yourself in relation to the 'tradition'?

I come from a tradition that has always fused elements to create new colors. This is what Nazareth did, what Pixinguinha, Villa Lobos, Jobim and Hermeto all do. I feel that every time I play, their spirits are guiding me and also showing me that other traditions - jazz, blues, African, Eastern - are linking in and feeding their influences. This is a great time to make music.

What music do you listen to when you are relaxing?

I listen to music when I am driving and when I am washing the dishes, otherwise I am making it. When I listen, I like to be surprised, to not know what's coming, so I keep my record collection randomly unorganized and pick with my eyes closed, or then I surf the radio waves.

Give us a mental image of your favorite view in the world.

Restinga da Marambaia, a 30-mile long arm of sand that juts out of the West end of Rio and advances in the ocean. On one side, the Atlantic is roaring, on the other, just a few feet away, the green waters are calm and ahead is Ilha Grande, with mountains and forests. The monkeys are howling and the dolphins are jumping.

If you have children what kind of musical education have you given them or do you intend to give them?

My 2 kids have always heard music, since they were in my wife's belly. I encourage them to develop their own taste and have never forced to play an instrument. I think of them as very musical, and they help me in keeping up with what's happening in the scene today.

What does the music you play do for you, emotionally, spiritually, socially, whichever-other-ly?

Everything. My whole life revolves around music. I try to understand the business side of it and not let it get in the way of the true work. I feel I have a mission, and a huge responsibility to my teacher and to his teachers, and so every note I play has to be the best I can do, and I need to share that concept with my students as well.

What changes or landmarks in your life can you attribute to the music you play?

It keeps me alive and it makes me feel that I am just beginning to learn it, always. It's a good feeling.

When the music is at it's best in your opinion, what is it that's happening (to make it the best) and what do you feel?

There is a point in music making when the flow between the inspiration and the execution is so immediate that you get this rush as if you are surfing this huge wave, and only the present moment exists. This is the same as samadhi, or the bliss that yogis feel when they focus on the now. When music gives you this individual experience in a collective context, there is nothing like it. I live for these moments...

What one CD of those you have recorded would you keep if the others were forever lost??!!

"Zabumbê-bum-á", the first record I made with Hermeto in 1978. For me, it's a like a picture of me discovering a whole new world of harmony, rhythm and melody. Most of the stuff I played there I did not even understand until later, and then I loved it even more.

What one CD of someone else's would you keep if all others were lost??!!

Hermeto's first CD recorded in New York in 1970(originally called "Hermeto!", then re-released as "Brazilian Adventure"), with some of the best musicians in the world on horns, strings and rhythm playing his arrangements.

Name an all-star band of your favorite musicians (and arrangers) or one band for each genre (charanga, conjunto, big band, etc.)

Hermeto on piano and flute, Airto on drums, Wayne Shorter on sax, Dave Holland on bass, Miles on trumpet, and me in the middle with my eyes closed.


What musicians would you most like to play with, now living on earth or elsewhere?

I have some 16-year old students that embrace music totally, always remembering that they are learning. All the great musicians of the world, living or not, that I admire, have that same attitude, regardless of age or fame. I want to play with all of them!

What band or musicians would you have wanted to play with from the past and why?

Pixinguinha's "Os Oito Batutas". They were very modern in 1920, blending the mixed heritage of African, Indian and European blood into our music, and they created so much in terms of form, improvisation, composition that we have not yet fully assimilated.

Are critics important? Or do you rather see your music reviewed in the vanity press? Are you susceptible to bad reviews?

I am friends with a few good music critics, and I understand how they try to get a honest snapshot of their reaction to a particular musical performance, and then capture that in writing. Of course, many times their reaction has nothing to do with the musician's original intention, but when you create music, you cannot control people's reactions to it. I am happy when I get a reaction. Of course, a good review is better than a bad one, but a bad one is better than indifference.

Do you believe in music as art, as opposed to a product for merchandising?

The way I see it, when music is good, it can be sold and commercialized, just like any art. I don't have to worry about making my music palatable to any one, I just have to make it the best I can. I am confident that if I succeed in doing that, someone will pay for it. I don't believe in the "starving misunderstood artist" syndrome, just as I don't believe in record company execs that think you have to make music worse in order to sell it. Music is nourishment to the soul. I believe in making mine new from fresh, organic ingredients. If other people want to eat a frozen MacDonald's burger, I still believe that they have a right to try my feijoada, if they want to, so I keep chopping the onions and soaking the black beans...

Would you still be a musician even if that means you'll die of hunger?

A good musician will only die of hunger if his mind wants him to. Being a musician is not an option, it's a mission. I would die if I wouldn't be one.
 

If you had to choose a short segment (a few bars) from your work to represent you, which would it be?

In my first CD "Caboclo", on the title track, there is a moment when Hans Teuber's soprano sax solo morphs into the piano solo, and it happened so naturally and in a beautiful way, I still get chills when I hear it again.

What food would you most liken your music to?

When you season black beans, you make this concentrated sautée of onions, garlic, herbs, salt and pepper. With this you season a whole pot of beans, and the more it sits there, the more flavor it releases in to the stew. That's how I like to think of my music.

Do you believe in aliens?

I believe that the Universe is much bigger than we think, and I believe that Music is the language of all languages and of all worlds. When we compose and improvise, our inspiration and influences come from a much wider sphere than we normally admit, so it's easy to connect with other frequencies, without worrying where they are from. Remember, music is the Real and Original Internet...

If it were up to you, what would the names of Hermeto's pig and rooster be?

Knowing Hermeto, these would be plausible names:

Pig: Clin-Clâncoli

Rooster: Mavum-Vavum- Pefôco

One piece of advice for musicians

Never, never think that you know everything-always think of yourself as a beginner, and go practice!

One piece of advice for listeners (or dancers)

Listen without prejudice. Close your eyes and SEE the music!

One piece of advice for life

I will quote from a Hermeto song:

Este canto vem de longe

"This song comes from far"

A distância não sei dizer

"I cannot tell the distance"

Salve,salve a toda a gente

"My salute to all the people"

Que vive e deixa viver

"Who live and let live"

Aqui vai o meu abraço

"Here goes my embrace"

Com o Som e o Saber

"With Sound and Wisdom"

Tirando da própria mente

"Bringing forth from one's own mind"

As palavras pra dizer

"The words to say"

A Música segura o Mundo

"Music holds the World together"

Enquanto a gente viver

"As long as we live"

by Steve Cline

from Earshot Jazz magazine, July '03

In his travels with band leader and mentor Hermeto Pascoal, Jovino Santos Neto visited Seattle and was impressed enough by the city to move his family there in 1993. “It was a very intuitive decision,“ Santos Neto says in a 1996 interview. “I felt good when I played here with Hermeto in 1990 and even better when we returned one year later.”

He enrolled in the music program at Cornish College of the Arts to study conducting and orchestration. Michael Spiro, the San Francisco percussionist and former teacher at Cornish was doing a workshop there and recognized Jovino. Spiro went to Chuck Deardorf, who heads the jazz studies program and told him (paraphrasing), “Jovino Santos Neto is a student here?! He should be teaching! You can't know what you have here!” Soon enough everyone did know and Jovino became a member of the Cornish faculty.

For fifteen years, Jovino had been a part of O Grupo, the ensemble led by Pascoal, one Brazil’s most adventurous and idiosyncratic musicians. In that time, Jovino developed into one of the greatest Brazilian pianists around. Since departing the Pascoal band in 1993, Jovino has worked in Fourth World, the group of Airto Moreira and Flora Purim, and has recorded with Brazilian pop luminaries Maria Bethânia and Sergio Mendes. In Seattle he formed a working group, The Jovino Santos Neto Quinteto which produced Caboclo (Liquid City, 1997) and Live in Olympia (Liquid City, 2000). The band’s third release Canto do Rio is expected later this summer.

Jovino’s music reflects his personality in its intense positivity, quick wit, and wildly varied interests. “Jovino is one of the most organic, personally open, and interactive musicians I know,” says guitarist Richard Boukas, whose duo with Jovino is recorded on Balaio (Malandro, 2001). “He can play with anybody. Like Hermeto, but in his own unique way, his compositions are very harmonically rich, melodically bold and rhythmically vital. He always thinks about the players he is writing for, and that makes a big difference in everyone's musical experience.”

Jovino’s understated entrance at Cornish exemplifies his modesty and his priorities, which are focused on learning and teaching — activities he considers to be one, as inseparable as composing and improvising.

The title of the new record refers back to Jovino’s home town of Rio de Janeiro:

I had this idea of a concert, a set of tunes, called Canto do Rio,” says Jovino. “Canto means song, so song of Rio — song about Rio. Rio means river. The Portuguese named the place thinking that the bay was a giant river. Canto also means corner, so corner of the river, this idea of a secluded place on a river; this thing of nature and the river, a dark place with trees overhead and a very spiritual connection to this place. So it’s these multiple meanings guided the whole project.


Deardorf identifies a transitory element to the record. “The music is a continuation of Jovino’s evolution as a composer, and the evolution of the band mirrors that. One difference is the increased use of electronic instruments.”

Says Jovino, “There are moments of samba on this record, but not a samba tune. “There are other older grooves like the batuki. I went back in the sense these are more primeval grooves, but on the other hand, I went contemporary on the sounds for that, because I really wanted the Rhodes piano and electric bass.”

Earshot: Vinicius Cantuaria has said that he had to leave Brazil in order to be more Brazilian.

Jovino Santos Neto: I totally agree with that. Being a fish you can’t understand about the waters, or what the ocean is, or what the air is. I think you have to be an astronaut to know what it is to live on Earth. To go where there is no air, no earth, no gravity. Then you come back to where these things are present and you say ‘Wow!’ So that must be the source of the whole impulse people have for traveling. I love traveling, I gotta go! If I can’t go with my body, I go with my head. Through a film or a book, imagining, playing. That’s a great place to go! You can go to all these places when you play music. You get connected with them all the time, because it’s a vibrational thing, a resonance.

When I play music inspired by a jackfruit tree in Rio and I play it in Seattle, I’m not transplanting the tree here, but the vibration of the tree is here, that does travel with the music. That vibration is not just about ethnicity. If my band is all Brazilians, I might be a lot more successful by now because it would be as all Brazilians think. Now I love playing with Brazilians; I will be in a couple of weeks at its gonna be burning, I know that. But there is such a thrill to take this thing to these incredible guys here and say ‘okay, here’s a maracatu, here’s a batuki. You’ve never played this before, and neither have I. I just discovered this. And so we work together to establish the groove and refining it. It is an amazing journey

I do the same thing with the students when I teach at Cornish or Music Works or at these Summer camps. It turns out that most of the music I play with my band on the new record was composed in the presence of students. That subverts the idea of who is student and who is teacher! I am just a facilitator of the vibration.

I don’t mean to make it into some paranormal thing. That’s the most normal thing. Being in the presence of the students just reinforces the resonance. This is what Hermeto did with his band. He had us there, just being there. It’s like, ‘I’m here. I don’t know what is going to happen.’ Today maybe we work on a standard, maybe he’s going to write a totally new tune right there in front of us, or we might just start improvising together, or maybe we aren’t going to work at all and just sit there and talk about music. That was 15 years of our school there. Hermeto wrote so much more music through those years than any time before or after. The arrangement of the band was so immediate. He would write an incredible amount and just pass it on. Now that is part of my work, to make that available to other musicians through the book I’ve published of his work from this time.

Earshot: How did you come to the piano?

JSN: It is a common assumption, especially in the middle class, that your daughters should play piano well. If they are gifted then they are fit for marriage, to entertain and keep a house going. So actually the piano came so my sister could play it. And she started taking piano lessons. When the piano came I was all over it, I couldn’t believe the thing.

Earshot: How old were you?

JSN: I was 12. I started taking lessons, too. The teacher came once a week. I learned very quickly where the notes were, and I started to read little Bach things, which I loved. It was like putting puzzles together, and I always loved puzzles. So playing piano was immediately something very attractive to me.

Having done that at around 14 I started going to teen dances, I started to hear Rock and Roll from the US and England, especially. I discovered the Beatles first. It was a big influence. And on the radio this guy was playing lots of Stax records. There was a DJ that played this music, James Brown, Aretha Franklin, Wilson Pickett. This was all the time on the radio — not all the time but two times a day. There was one in the afternoon and one late at night, it was the same DJ. And there was another radio show that was just live recordings from London. It was called “60 Minutes of Contemporary Music.” King Crimson and Yes and Emerson, Lake & Palmer; Just live broadcasts, every day at 3 o’clock. Wherever I was I would turn on the radio and hear this really amazing progressive music. It was very powerful to me. There was no jazz. I didn’t like jazz. I felt it totally without energy.

But the progressive rock! The whole complexity, odd-meters and the way the music was fit together; the puzzle-making thing was still very big with me. So that was my reality for a good while.

Then in 1974 I went to live in Canada, to study Biology in Montreal. I bought a Fender Rhodes and moved into the dorm. I was in a band called Melange, playing all original music. Then I started to listen to Weather Report. I had Mysterious Traveler and (Miles Davis’s) In a Silent Way, and that is when I started to get into jazz.

Earshot: When did you start playing with Hermeto?

JSN: 1977, when I came back from Canada. I returned to Rio to do my Master’s degree. I was going to go to the Amazon.

Earshot: Had you been playing professionally?

JSN: I had played some parties and a couple of festivals with my band in Montreal.

Earshot: But was it your intention to make music a career?

JSN: I wanted to but it didn’t feel good. The whole club scene was pretty depressing to me, a general loneliness. So I came back and said I can always just play for me, play for my friends, and be in the woods which is where I liked to be. I had this plan and it got approved, which felt great. Then I found out that Hermeto had moved to a place very near my house. He was a neighbor of a very good friend of mine. ‘What?’ He said ‘I’ll bring you to his house.’ I didn’t go there to ask for a gig. I was just going to shake his hand. I had heard his music. He had that looseness that I heard in Weather Report with a very strong personality. I loved that music.

And he asked me to do this gig. So I rehearsed for one week and he totally blew my mind. This is nothing like what I was doing back in Canada; nothing like the progressive rock band.

Earshot: What is it about his music that is so special?

JSN: It is jazzy, it is very folkloric, it is very classical, contrapuntal, it is philosophically advanced, harmonically advanced. Yes, all that. And more. And because of that openness, you are obligated to add to the mix. Hermeto, he’s the mix man. He mixed everything. He would take bedpans and make amazing beautiful music with them. He hears the music in them. He hears people talking and notates melodies and harmonizes it like a theme. Never put a wall between one thing and the other — that is the great legacy of Hermeto.

He played all the kinds of music. He played the radio, that was the gig in the ’60s. The stations broadcast live for hundreds of miles. And the singers would come from Rio and Sao Paulo, so the local band had to learn the songs on the fly. Even if you knew the song but the next day is a different singer, different key, different style. Hermeto didn’t see well and his reflexes are so sharp. They get sharper the older he gets! Nobody can catch him. He’s visionary. He sees the harmony, he sees the way ahead, and he can play the game and play with an energy to the point where it is totally chaotic then reel it back in again and make it lyrical, then take it way out again.

His knowledge of dealing with energy is amazing. I saw it and every day it was always a surprise. Never could I think ‘oh, I know where this is gonna go!’



published June 27, 2003

 

Interview with the Japanese magazine Euro Rock Press done in July 2006

1: We have read that your favorite music was progressive rock in your teenage years, and you have really played in progressive rock band before you joined the group. Would you tell details for our readers?

I started listening to British progressive rock bands when I was 16. My favorites were Yes, King Crimson, Emerson, Lake and Palmer and Jethro Tull. I loved the complex structures of the music, and the sense of discipline and joy I got from the recordings. I memorized entire records, but I could never really emulate those sounds when I played. It did inspire me to think of music as a very strong and serious endeavor, and to try to compose my own pieces. I was part of a rock band in Rio called The Vacancy Group when I was 17. Then when I lived in Montreal, Canada in the early 70s, we formed a fusion rock/jazz band called Mélange. We played mostly original music, so that was a great learning experience for me.

2: When you joined Hermeto's group, did you know much about him? In other words, was he already famous in Brazil at the time?

Hermeto was already known as an eccentric and genial musician in 1977, when I joined his group. I had first seen him in concert in 1973, and was immediately impressed by the musical energy coming from the stage. I heard another concert in 75, which again was a memorable experience. Later, when I was living in Canada, I heard the work he was doing with Airto Moreira and Flora Purim and continued to enjoy every note of it.

3: How did Hermeto instruct his musicians?  Was he rigorous? Did you have to read a lot of written scores?

I was not used to any kind of steady discipline in music, so when I was faced with daily 6-hour rehearsals, I realized how important the control of attention is to a musician. Hermeto kept telling us about the need to practice, to concentrate on the music and to learn to listen carefully when playing in a group. Our rehearsals involved both reading of written scores and improvisations. Often he would compose a piece right in front of the band, and then have us notate it, which was an incredible class in eartraining, music composition and creativity all at once.

4: You played keyboards, flute and piccolo in Hermeto's group. How difficult were your parts in his compositions?  Did it take many hours to master them?

Hermeto always gave me music to play that challenged my musical limits. Being a consummate musician, he could control the amount of difficulty in a part, while never compromising the overall quality of the piece. I look today at the music he had me play when I just a beginner, and these pieces are just as amazing as the more elaborate material he gave us later. Some of his pieces took me several years to master, and many are still part of my daily practice routine. I always find a new angle, a new fingering or a new way to interpret a passage.

5: There's a rumor that the Grupo members would often find a new Hermeto score inserted under their room's door when they woke up in the morning.  Is it true?

What happened many times is that we would come to the rehearsal and there would be fresh music for us to work on. He would often listen to us playing one of his pieces while he wrote a completely different piece at the same time. Contrary to rumors, we did not all live together in the same house. We met every afternoon at Hermeto’s house for rehearsals, but we would wake up in our own homes, located not far from his, and practice our instruments before coming to rehearse.

6: According to Gerald Seligman's linernotes for "The Free Music of Hermeto Paschoal", the military government in Brazil banned "Sereiarei" (with living animal sounds) from a popular music festival.  Is it true?  If so, could you tell us the details on the incident?  (I'm wondering whether he refers to the version on the album or the one sung by Alaide Costa.)

You must remember that Brazil was under a strict military dictatorship at the time, so there was heavy censorship of anything that could be interpreted as subversive. Some people viewed Hermeto’s use of animals onstage and of percussion instruments made of cooking pots and pans as a kind of political statement about poverty and the revolt of the rural masses. Hermeto’s objectives, however, were always musical. He used these things because he wanted their sound to be part of his music. He was also never afraid to defy authorities and go ahead with his ideas. He was told not to bring any animals to the Festival, but he did it anyway. The piece was “Sereiarei” and Alaíde Costa was the singer at the 7^th FIC Festival in Rio in 1972. The album version was done later, with Hermeto singing the main part.

7: Does Hermeto have a difficult temper?  According to this page (http://www.arjazz.org/archive/articles/ltomboulian/nf_9002.html) , he suddenly threw a heavy Fender Rhodes during a live performance at Berklee School of Music, and made a big hole in the floor.  Is this true? （Note: If you are not willing to spread this kind of notorious rumors about Hermeto, we won't publish this question.)

 I have seen Hermeto break and throw instruments around many times. He respects all his instruments very much, but if he’s in the middle of a musical idea, and the instrument does not respond or breaks a key, etc, he will not tolerate it. Some of these outbursts became famous, such as the one described in the article you cited. However, since then Hermeto was not only invited, but honored by Berklee College of Music in 1993. He once threw a really bad piano off the stage at a club in São Paulo, which made the club owner buy a new instrument, and for that all the other pianists thanked Hermeto. I’ve seen him throw Rhodes pianos, flutes, melodicas and many more instruments, but never for showmanship only. He would never break a good instrument, only the ones that are already beyond repair.

8: "Zabumbe-bum-a" was the first album you recorded with Hermeto. I think it's tighter than his first three albums, in terms of ensemble work.  What do you think about the difference between those pre-Grupo albums and the Grupo albums?  Is it due to new members (including you)?  Or Hermeto himself changed his direction?

In my opinion, what makes “Zabumbê-bum-á” such a tight album was the presence of Nenê on drums. He was already such a consummate musician then, while the rest of us were really beginning in the group. In 1980 that band was dissolved and we went through different musicians. Afterwards, when the Grupo was formed in 1981 with Carlos Malta, Marcio Bahia, Itiberê Zwarg, Pernambuco and me, we started a long process of collective evolution that led to one of the tightest bands in the history of music. By the late 80s we were definitely on another level.

9: In '79, Hermeto's group toured major jazz festivals in Montreux and Tokyo.  Do you have any specific memory on the tour?

Yes, I do remember both of those festivals very well, as it was the first time I had visited both Europe and Japan. I remember playing in the tunnel of the stadium in Tokyo where the Live Under the Sky Festival was held, and we were exploring the echo, making sound effects with rocks and water and voices, and the whole public was responding to the band, even before we came onstage! I actually have a recording of that show, and it still makes my heart beat faster every time I hear it.

10: Hermeto's group was prolific during the '80s, producing many albums for Som da Gente and touring world-widely.  How many tunes did they have in their repertoire?  Were there many unreleased tunes?

Our basic Grupo repertoire consisted of about 200 tunes, but Hermeto’s output as a composer is much larger. We estimate that he has over 3000 pieces written, but this is not a final number, as he continues to compose more. Of course, most of these tunes were never recorded or released, and that is part of my work, as I prepare his music for publication, so that other musicians can access this treasure chest of great music. He has pieces for the band, but also for string quartets, orchestras, big bands, solo pieces, etc…

11: One of my favorites in "Brasil Universo" is "Crianças", which uses bottles filled with water.  Could you tell us how it was recorded?

This piece took about 3 days to be recorded. Hermeto wrote the arrangement and I charted out how many times each note was to be played. So the band prepared the bottles with water, and each musician played one bottle at a time, with one note, playing only when that note occurred. This was before the advent of digital recording and sequencers, so everything was done on tape and in real time, a painstaking and meticulous process.

12: While Hermeto had recorded five albums for Som da Gente, he split with them, leaving the original version of "Mundo Verde Esperanca" unfinished.  What happened between him and the label? And is there any possibility that the album would be released?

 I would rather not comment on this issue, because I was not part of the discussion process that led to the decisions that were made. All I can say is that would have been a beautiful record if it had been released. I would hope that it could be released one day, but I cannot decide that either.

13: On later Grupo albums, you are credited as producer, while Hermeto was obviously the leader of the group.  What kind of role did you play during the recordings?

Soon after I joined the Grupo in 1977, Hermeto noted that I had a natural gift for organizing things. This led to my coordinating a lot of what the band did, such as going on tour and recording. My role in the studio was to keep track of everything we did, what pieces we would record, who played on which track, how much music time we would have on the record, etc. The creative musical process was always under Hermeto’s direction, but I was the one taking care of the logistics and technical infrastructure. This is why I was credited as a producer.

14: On "Festa dos Deuses", you are credited as "keyboards" for the "Som da Aura" pieces.  Then, who transcribed the melody of the voices?  You or Hermeto?

All the Som da Aura pieces were transcribed by Hermeto with my assistance. Each one would take from 4 to 6 hours of work to be transcribed, and then I played all the parts on the keyboard as Hermeto watched and made comments. He also harmonized all of them, and I played the harmonies he wrote.

15: The group seems to have had a big turning point in the beginning of 1990s, as you, Carlos Malta and Pernambuco left the group and after a while Andre Marques and Vinicius Dorin have joined the group. Should we think that the group has broken up once around 1993, before you moved to Seattle? How things were going at that time?

 My view is that that particular collective of musicians had reached a point of maturation that is like a fruit that has ripened on a tree. At that point, the natural process is for the fruit to detach itself from the tree and generate more seeds. In a way, this is what happened in my case. I left the Group, but never lost touch with Hermeto and all the other musicians. As a matter of fact, in my latest CD, Roda Carioca, Marcio Bahia plays drums, Fabio Pascoal plays percussion and of course Hermeto also participates. Our friendship and musical affinity has not diminished, only grown stronger with the passing years.

For me, leaving the Group was a way to develop my identity as a composer, a pianist and an educator. Other musicians, like Itiberê Zwarg, still play with Hermeto, but he has also a beautiful orchestra with young players who carry on the tradition of Universal Music as we learned from the Master.

16: Hermeto often claims that he doesn't have influences from other people's music.  But it's inevitable for us to compare his music with so-called "progressive rock" and Frank Zappa's compositions. What do you think about the comparison?

Having been a fan of progressive rock and of Frank Zappa, I can see why people think that Hermeto was influenced by him. However, I can assure you that not only Hermeto had never heard of Zappa, he did not even own a record player or any records by him. I have music written by Hermeto in the mid-50s that already sounds like Hermeto. In the case of non-Brazilians who heard Zappa before they heard Hermeto, it’s easy to draw this conclusion, but if you look at the other side of the coin, we can equally say that Zappa was influenced by Hermeto. My opinion is that these are 2 great creative individuals, who have forged their own sound in an independent way. This is the nature of creativity: it sprouts in different places, often at the same time.

17: In late 90s you have told in the other interview that Hermeto have been almost unknown in U.S. music scene, compared with that in Europe. How has the situation changed? Has he still been ignored up to now?

What I mean is that if you open a jazz or classical music magazine, you will find all kinds of mentions to all kinds of players, old and new, but you will rarely find Hermeto’s name. You won’t find his records in record stores, or hear his music on the radio. Even though we live in a world with instant access to information, it’s unbelievable that a uniquely talented genius like Hermeto is still largely unknown. However, this is nobody’s fault – there are more and more younger players who have been influenced by the Hermeto school , there are those of us who have been to that school for a long time and are carrying on the tradition, and there’s publications such as yours that do give the spotlight to Hermeto Pascoal. Hermeto once told me that he is not in a hurry to become famous or whatever. His music will still be recognized many generations from now, and this is why I do the work of preparing, publishing and sharing his music. This is a long-term plan!

18: While your playing-style is quite percussive as compared with that of ordinary jazz pianist, your arrangements are generally subtle and lyrical than that of Hermeto, as if to aim at extracting structural beauty of each pieces. Are you consciously doing that?

This is one of the main lessons we learned from him – how to become yourself musically. Of course, I have a different personality and style than Hermeto, and while I my musical DNA has the influence of his style, I consciously focus on making my music my music. This is a natural process that comes with becoming mature and at peace with oneself.

19: You have played duo with Mike Marshall and Richard Boukas before, and you invited Hamilton de Holanda and Marcos Amorim as guest players in 'Roda Carioca'. You seem to take a fancy to play with mandolin / guitar players so much.

Yes, the guitar is one of my favorite instruments. I wish I could play it, but I don’t; I am blessed to have such great friends who are great string players, and it’s always a pleasure to make music with them.

20: While your self-titled albums were recorded with acoustic format, you have also played keyboards in Fourth World. Do you plan to play keyboards or to feature other electric instruments in your project?

I love playing keyboards and I love playing piano, but somehow I don’t feel good about mixing them on the same project, with very rare exceptions. With Fourth World, I learned a lot about pads, textures and colors on the keys. You can say that my main love is for the acoustic piano, followed closely by the Rhodes electric piano. However, sometimes I do special projects for films or for dance projects that are all keyboard-based, and then I think with a different mind set, visualizing electronic waves and pads swirling all around…

21: While your recent activities are mostly done in the US with US musicians, what motivated you to record your new album "Roda Carioca" in Brazil?

I have a great band here in Seattle that has been together since 1993. We love playing together and have a good following in the USA. However, I always wanted to record my music in Brazil with my friends there, and Adventure Music gave me that opportunity with Roda Carioca. I love the result, but what I am thinking now is how to combine the American players and the Brazilian players in one project…

22: What do you think about the performances with guest musicians (Joyce, Hermeto, Fabio, etc)?

Each one of them gave me a precious present, and I cherish all of their beautiful contributions to my record. I feel very grateful to have had the opportunity to have such wonderful musicians entering our roda (circle).

23: Although we have witnessed Hermeto's smaller units (solo, HP & Aline, HP & Grupo) in Japan, we don't have much information on his larger ensembles (big band and symphony orchestra).  Could you explain what kind of arrangement he does for these two ensembles? Are they an extension from his first two albums ("Hermeto" and "A Musica Livre...")?

Actually, no. Since the early 70s, Hermeto has composed music for the big band format. We have performed this music with several European orchestras, such as the Danish Radio Big band in 1986, 1989 and 1992 and also with a British big band made of the best UK players in 1995, 2000 and 2004. We played in 2005 with the Toulouse Conservatory Big band for 12000 people. I usually direct these ensembles, with Hermeto as a soloist. In September 2006 we will perform several of his big band pieces in New York as part of a special concert honoring Hermeto’s music, with Paquito d’Rivera and Mike Marshall as soloists.

24: If some Japanese musicians ask you and Hermeto to supervise the live performance of Hermeto's big band pieces, would you like to help them?

Of course, it would be a pleasure. All you have to do is ask!

25: In closing, would you give message for Japanese fans of you and Hermeto?

I have only been to Japan twice, in 1979 and in 1996. In spite of that, I feel a very special affinity with the people and the culture of Japan. I love the food, the films and the poetry that come from your land. I also appreciate your sense of discipline and work ethics. My dream is to return to Japan and play much more there, get to know the country and the people better. I hope this happens soon!

Arigato,

Jovino Santos Neto